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	<title>Comments on: A Recent History of Evening Wear</title>
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	<link>http://thegentlemanmason.com/2009/07/19/a-recent-history-of-evening-wear/</link>
	<description>Dress - Etiquette - The Good Life</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Naylor</title>
		<link>http://thegentlemanmason.com/2009/07/19/a-recent-history-of-evening-wear/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Naylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegentlemanmason.com/?p=20#comment-28</guid>
		<description>You know, we simply don&#039;t discuss appropriateness anymore.  People of our age are children of the 60s generation when they stopped talking about appropriateness of dress.  

It&#039;s a fascinating thing to me to watch films of baseball games from the 50s and early 60s.  People are sitting in the stands at baseball games wearing dress shirts and neckties, jackets and fedoras if the weather supported it.  Now the discussion has turned to, &quot;Do I have to wear a suit to a graduation / wedding / church?&quot;  It&#039;s amazing to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, we simply don&#8217;t discuss appropriateness anymore.  People of our age are children of the 60s generation when they stopped talking about appropriateness of dress.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a fascinating thing to me to watch films of baseball games from the 50s and early 60s.  People are sitting in the stands at baseball games wearing dress shirts and neckties, jackets and fedoras if the weather supported it.  Now the discussion has turned to, &#8220;Do I have to wear a suit to a graduation / wedding / church?&#8221;  It&#8217;s amazing to me.</p>
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		<title>By: MP</title>
		<link>http://thegentlemanmason.com/2009/07/19/a-recent-history-of-evening-wear/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>MP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegentlemanmason.com/?p=20#comment-23</guid>
		<description>Ah, Br. Jeff - what times, what mores!

I graduated from High School in 1990.

The way _I_ was brought up, a formal evening affair demanded white tie and tails, preferably white picque for the tie and waiscoat.

When I went to go rent said item for my senior prom, the person at the tux shop tried to present me a white tail coat.

Sigh.

I&#039;ll admit, at my first wedding, i screwed up matching the attire - I wore my Army Dress Blues, and my groomsmen were in white tie and tails.

They were formal, I was semi formal.

IF I wear my uniform when I get married again, I will be able to either wear blue mess (short &quot;bolero&quot; cut) with black tie (which is a slight step UP from dinner jacket, but below white tie and tails, so, what should my groomsmen wear, then?) or evening blue mess, which is white tie and waistcoat with the same jacket.

But, were I to get married in the morning, and wear my uniform, what is the appropriate attire for my groomsmen - morning coats/cutaways?

Heck, what would be appropriate attire for ME in uniform during the day for a formal affair?

I could just cheat, and wear my kilt, but even then, a Prince Charlie is an evening jacket.

I&#039;m proud to be in a jurisdiction where we require dinner jackets for Lodge officers, it gave me an excuse to own one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, Br. Jeff &#8211; what times, what mores!</p>
<p>I graduated from High School in 1990.</p>
<p>The way _I_ was brought up, a formal evening affair demanded white tie and tails, preferably white picque for the tie and waiscoat.</p>
<p>When I went to go rent said item for my senior prom, the person at the tux shop tried to present me a white tail coat.</p>
<p>Sigh.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll admit, at my first wedding, i screwed up matching the attire &#8211; I wore my Army Dress Blues, and my groomsmen were in white tie and tails.</p>
<p>They were formal, I was semi formal.</p>
<p>IF I wear my uniform when I get married again, I will be able to either wear blue mess (short &#8220;bolero&#8221; cut) with black tie (which is a slight step UP from dinner jacket, but below white tie and tails, so, what should my groomsmen wear, then?) or evening blue mess, which is white tie and waistcoat with the same jacket.</p>
<p>But, were I to get married in the morning, and wear my uniform, what is the appropriate attire for my groomsmen &#8211; morning coats/cutaways?</p>
<p>Heck, what would be appropriate attire for ME in uniform during the day for a formal affair?</p>
<p>I could just cheat, and wear my kilt, but even then, a Prince Charlie is an evening jacket.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m proud to be in a jurisdiction where we require dinner jackets for Lodge officers, it gave me an excuse to own one.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Naylor</title>
		<link>http://thegentlemanmason.com/2009/07/19/a-recent-history-of-evening-wear/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Naylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegentlemanmason.com/?p=20#comment-21</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re probably quite right, Brent.  I don&#039;t know if you&#039;ve seen what young gentlemen are wearing to proms these days, but they&#039;re hardly classic black tie dinner suits.  For the most part they&#039;re nothing more than glorified lounge suits with waistcoats and neckties that come in colors to match their dates&#039; dresses.  

Young men are essentially accessories.  Which is, I suppose, as it should be, but I&#039;d prefer to see it done a bit more classically.  It really is so much more economical to buy than rent a dinner suit if you&#039;re going to wear it more than three times.  Coupled with the fact that you can have your own tailored to fit properly, it&#039;s an investment that should be strongly considered.  

That is a very interesting addendum, Andrew.  I knew Lorillard was a Mason, I didn&#039;t know about the Master insisting on greater formality.  Good to know!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re probably quite right, Brent.  I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve seen what young gentlemen are wearing to proms these days, but they&#8217;re hardly classic black tie dinner suits.  For the most part they&#8217;re nothing more than glorified lounge suits with waistcoats and neckties that come in colors to match their dates&#8217; dresses.  </p>
<p>Young men are essentially accessories.  Which is, I suppose, as it should be, but I&#8217;d prefer to see it done a bit more classically.  It really is so much more economical to buy than rent a dinner suit if you&#8217;re going to wear it more than three times.  Coupled with the fact that you can have your own tailored to fit properly, it&#8217;s an investment that should be strongly considered.  </p>
<p>That is a very interesting addendum, Andrew.  I knew Lorillard was a Mason, I didn&#8217;t know about the Master insisting on greater formality.  Good to know!</p>
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		<title>By: S. Brent Morris</title>
		<link>http://thegentlemanmason.com/2009/07/19/a-recent-history-of-evening-wear/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>S. Brent Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegentlemanmason.com/?p=20#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Waaay back in 1968 when I graduated high school, I had a discussion with two of my buddies, James B. Fredd and John McCray. The topic was whether we should rent or purchase tuxedos for our upcoming prom. We consider our high school prom, one or two proms in college, perhaps a sorority formal (to which we hoped to be invited), and a wedding or two of friends yet to be named. All together we decided the cost or purchasing would pay for itself within the next four years.

I never went to a college prom, but I did to to the formal dance each semester of my fraternity (Delta Sigma Phi). The tux also let me get a job as a wine steward at an upscale restaurant during my senior year, and it was more convenient to wear when I performed as a magician than the white tie and tails I had been wearing. The tails were soon retired.

I doubt that many high school graduates today have such discussions!

Brent</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Waaay back in 1968 when I graduated high school, I had a discussion with two of my buddies, James B. Fredd and John McCray. The topic was whether we should rent or purchase tuxedos for our upcoming prom. We consider our high school prom, one or two proms in college, perhaps a sorority formal (to which we hoped to be invited), and a wedding or two of friends yet to be named. All together we decided the cost or purchasing would pay for itself within the next four years.</p>
<p>I never went to a college prom, but I did to to the formal dance each semester of my fraternity (Delta Sigma Phi). The tux also let me get a job as a wine steward at an upscale restaurant during my senior year, and it was more convenient to wear when I performed as a magician than the white tie and tails I had been wearing. The tails were soon retired.</p>
<p>I doubt that many high school graduates today have such discussions!</p>
<p>Brent</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://thegentlemanmason.com/2009/07/19/a-recent-history-of-evening-wear/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegentlemanmason.com/?p=20#comment-19</guid>
		<description>An addendum... Pierre Lorillard was a Brother Mason (a member of Holland Lodge No. 8 in New York City.  There is no record in the minutes of what the Brethren of the lodge thought of Brother Lorillard&#039;s &quot;Tuxedo Jacket&quot;, but it seems that the Master disapproved of such informality.  To this day, while the regular brethren of the lodge don dinner jackets for our meetings, the Master continues to dress properly for dinner (ie in white tie).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An addendum&#8230; Pierre Lorillard was a Brother Mason (a member of Holland Lodge No. 8 in New York City.  There is no record in the minutes of what the Brethren of the lodge thought of Brother Lorillard&#8217;s &#8220;Tuxedo Jacket&#8221;, but it seems that the Master disapproved of such informality.  To this day, while the regular brethren of the lodge don dinner jackets for our meetings, the Master continues to dress properly for dinner (ie in white tie).</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://thegentlemanmason.com/2009/07/19/a-recent-history-of-evening-wear/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegentlemanmason.com/?p=20#comment-14</guid>
		<description>She tells that story so much better than I do. ;-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She tells that story so much better than I do. ;-D</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Naylor</title>
		<link>http://thegentlemanmason.com/2009/07/19/a-recent-history-of-evening-wear/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Naylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegentlemanmason.com/?p=20#comment-13</guid>
		<description>I love it!  The times, they have changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love it!  The times, they have changed.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://thegentlemanmason.com/2009/07/19/a-recent-history-of-evening-wear/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegentlemanmason.com/?p=20#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Jeff, you&#039;ll enjoy this:

When, in 1951, my parents were planning their wedding, they were on a fairly tight budget.  My father, who was in the Navy, planned to be wed, quite appropriately, in his dress whites.  (And very spiffy he looked, too.)  But he tried to come up with something his groomsmen could all wear that would match reasonably well (the days of totally matchy-matchy weddings were not yet upon us) and wouldn&#039;t have to go out and purchase new.  He told his mother that he knew they all owned their own tuxedos.  Couldn&#039;t they just wear their tuxes to the wedding?

His mother, a woman of great breeding, proud background, and impeccable manners, looked at him, shocked to the core, and said, &quot;John, they might just as well wear their pajamas.&quot;

They quite properly wore dark business suits, and matchy-matchy be damned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, you&#8217;ll enjoy this:</p>
<p>When, in 1951, my parents were planning their wedding, they were on a fairly tight budget.  My father, who was in the Navy, planned to be wed, quite appropriately, in his dress whites.  (And very spiffy he looked, too.)  But he tried to come up with something his groomsmen could all wear that would match reasonably well (the days of totally matchy-matchy weddings were not yet upon us) and wouldn&#8217;t have to go out and purchase new.  He told his mother that he knew they all owned their own tuxedos.  Couldn&#8217;t they just wear their tuxes to the wedding?</p>
<p>His mother, a woman of great breeding, proud background, and impeccable manners, looked at him, shocked to the core, and said, &#8220;John, they might just as well wear their pajamas.&#8221;</p>
<p>They quite properly wore dark business suits, and matchy-matchy be damned.</p>
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